Could your belief be wrong?

[Daldianus]

Since the question came up whether some people here claimed to be in the possession of The Truth or not. Therefore I'd like to ask the Christians:

Could your belief be wrong or are you absolutely sure to have access to, and know, The Truth?

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Of course my belief could be wrong, I just don't think it is.

all

[sferrari17]

I think that it is fairly obvious that you don't consider yourself as anything less than absolutely right.  Therefore, I think you should ask yourself that same question.  Anyone who considers themselves absolutely right has an ego the size the moon.  Who are you to have a monopoly on the truth, versus the rest of humanity?  Nobody but you seems to think that their ideology is perfect.  They are just as close to the truth as they know how to get.  In the quest for truth (especially at my age), you constantly discover new opinions, ideas, and theories, and refine your beliefs accordingly.  I don't expect that I will have exactly the same beliefs when I die, and I think that before you leave this earth, you have at least ONE thing wrong.  (I think that when you leave this earth, you'll discover you had much more than one thing wrong, but that is another topic entirely.)

[Daldianus]

Of course my belief could be wrong, I just don't think it is.

all

Fair enough. Otherwise why would you believe it? But at least you're not claiming 100% conviction.

[Daldianus]

I think that it is fairly obvious that you don't consider yourself as anything less than absolutely right.  Therefore, I think you should ask yourself that same question.  Anyone who considers themselves absolutely right has an ego the size the moon.  Who are you to have a monopoly on the truth, versus the rest of humanity?  Nobody but you seems to think that their ideology is perfect.  They are just as close to the truth as they know how to get.  In the quest for truth (especially at my age), you constantly discover new opinions, ideas, and theories, and refine your beliefs accordingly.  I don't expect that I will have exactly the same beliefs when I die, and I think that before you leave this earth, you have at least ONE thing wrong.  (I think that when you leave this earth, you'll discover you had much more than one thing wrong, but that is another topic entirely.)

Oh, I'm sure wrong on a lot of things! And I've never claimed to possess the Truth 100%.

But I can point out the short-comings of other belief systems though.

[sferrari17]

I think you will find shortcomings in every religion/non-religion.  The task is to find the one with the fewest shortcomings. 

It's all well and good to point out the shortcomings of other beliefs systems, but you never offer a solution.  I've only been here a week, but so far, the only thing I've seen you do is poke holes at Christianity without putting up answers to your own questions.  It's hard to have a debate when you don't offer up anything to debate about.

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Of course my belief could be wrong, I just don't think it is.

all

Fair enough. Otherwise why would you believe it? But at least you're not claiming 100% conviction.

No, I am 100% convinced.  Otherwise I would not believe it.  I'm just more concerned with my path than I am with yours or anyone else's.  An interesting part of polytheism is that you already recognize that there are multiple deities, so you don't get overly concerned if someone says they follow a different one, or none at all.

all

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

I think you will find shortcomings in every religion/non-religion.  The task is to find the one with the fewest shortcomings.

Actually, I think this is wrong.   I don't think it is us who searches for a religion that has the fewest shortcomings.  I would never even have considered my path if it hadn't been for UPG (unverifiable personal gnosis).

all

[sferrari17]

Actually, I think this is wrong.   I don't think it is us who searches for a religion that has the fewest shortcomings.  I would never even have considered my path if it hadn't been for UPG (unverifiable personal gnosis).

all

Well, I guess you are correct in that nobody sits down and looks at all the various belief systems in the world and says, "Which one sucks the least?"  Everybody looks for whatever belief system is closest to the truth.  I probably should have said everyone looks for the religion that is most true rather than least wrong.  However, if you look at things from a least wrong perspective, you can get some interesting insights.  For example, to a non-theist who doesn't belief in the afterlife, this life is the only you get, and consequently is incredibly important. A theist who goes through life following their religion, and from it, gains happiness and fulfillment in their delusion, really wins if you are comparing him to a non-theist who lives with emptiness.  Not to say that non-theism can't lead to a fulfilling life; just that in some cases, theism can be more fulfilling because you feel like you are serving a purpose greater than yourself.  And also, not to say that theism is an illusion, cause it isn't 

Incidentally, what is unverifiable personal gnosis?

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Everybody looks for whatever belief system is closest to the truth.

Actually, what I was getting at is that I don't think people look for a belief system at all.  I think that people have their beliefs, and if they align with a particular belief system, they are part of it.  A religion without personal belief is empty, and it's not something you can force. 

After that, its pretty much all your outlook as to how fulfilling something might be.  I don't think you can draw a link to a theology.

UPG is something that you experience that is personal to you, and gives you insight, yet is unverifiable to other people.

all

[Acumen]

Everybody looks for whatever belief system is closest to the truth.

Actually, what I was getting at is that I don't think people look for a belief system at all.  I think that people have their beliefs, and if they align with a particular belief system, they are part of it.  A religion without personal belief is empty, and it's not something you can force. 

After that, its pretty much all your outlook as to how fulfilling something might be.  I don't think you can draw a link to a theology.

UPG is something that you experience that is personal to you, and gives you insight, yet is unverifiable to other people.

all

You know, for a big bear, you're pretty insightful.   

[jacknky]

"After that, its pretty much all your outlook as to how fulfilling something might be."

I've said this before and no one has challenged me yet. (Either it's too ridiculous to fool with or to true to challenge.) Looking at religions it appears that the vast majority of believers believe in the first religion they are taught. The instruction usually begins at a very young age and after that it's extremely hard for any other religion to make a dent in that person's original faith.

If this is true for most believers then belief has less to do with which religion is "more fulfilling" and more to do with where believers were born.

[sferrari17]

Yeah all, I'll have to concede to you there, all.  I really meant exactly what you said, but I was struggling to find the right way to say it.  Thanks for clarifying for me there.

[Acumen]

"After that, its pretty much all your outlook as to how fulfilling something might be."

I've said this before and no one has challenged me yet. (Either it's too ridiculous to fool with or to true to challenge.) Looking at religions it appears that the vast majority of believers believe in the first religion they are taught. The instruction usually begins at a very young age and after that it's extremely hard for any other religion to make a dent in that person's original faith.

If this is true for most believers then belief has less to do with which religion is "more fulfilling" and more to do with where believers were born.

Unfortunately, I think an overwhelming majority of believers "associate" with the first religion they are taught because of a cultural or social acceptance, not because of their intimacy of belief.  For instance, how many Roman Catholics consider themselves Catholic because they were baptized as an infant?  Now, how many of them are Roman Catholic because they have studied the religion and found a personal connection and reality correspondence? 

[Beautiful_Dreamer]

Since the question came up whether some people here claimed to be in the possession of The Truth or not. Therefore I'd like to ask the Christians:

Could your belief be wrong or are you absolutely sure to have access to, and know, The Truth?

Of course my belief could be wrong. I am human, after all, and not in possession of all of the knowledge of the universe. I see through a glass, and darkly. I'm sure you have heard Pascal's Wager a million times, but that is basically what I cling to when it comes to this subject.

For those who aren't familiar with Pascal's Wager, it is basically that we can't prove whether God exists or not, but we should live as though He does. If He does, then we have everything to gain from living as though this belief is true. But if He doesn't, we haven't lost anything.

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

You know, for a big bear, you're pretty insightful.   

Well, I am smarter than the average bear.   

all

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Unfortunately, I think an overwhelming majority of believers "associate" with the first religion they are taught because of a cultural or social acceptance, not because of their intimacy of belief.  For instance, how many Roman Catholics consider themselves Catholic because they were baptized as an infant?  Now, how many of them are Roman Catholic because they have studied the religion and found a personal connection and reality correspondence? 

Enough.

While those who have not studied and found a personal connection will remain empty, for those that do study and find a personal connection, that other people didn't is pretty irrelevant.  I don't think that any religion should be called to task on this.

all

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Urge to debate Pascal's wager rising, rising, falling, falling, passing, let it go "all" let it go....


 

[ThinkItThrough]

Not enough Christian's know why they believe..

The majority of Christian's don't care to even research the truth behind Christianity.... They would rather just tell people "Jesus loves you" in hopes to convert unbelievers..

Critics of christianity also jump on the wagon and assume christianity is full of crap, dont do any research and get caught up in stupid debates that don't prove or disporve anything.

People need to research. the Bible teaches to thoroughly and critically examine both side's of any debate.. Even when Christian's do this they get caught up in stupid pointless debates and overlook the important points.

I had once been a critic of Christianity and religion in general. I got so sick of religion i started researching the world's religions. Christianity is the only one with any PROOF. And trust me Christianity has lots of proof, you just need to do your research and THINK THINGS THROUGH.

Obviously there is way too much to talk about right now...

Prophecy

The Bible predicts many things which have happened in the past 100 years..


1) The Bible predicts the return of the Jews to Israel in masses, mainly to save their own lives (during the holocaust, many Jews had no where to hide).

2) It predicts the exact day Israel was reborn as a nation. it predicts the 6day war.

3) it predicts the islamic jihad and the conflict between israel and surrounding islamic nations devoted to israel's annihilation.

4) it predicts that Israel (The Temple in particular) will be the cause of alot of conflict and war on earth.. The current Islamic Jihad is the beggining of this. 

5) It predicts that other powerful nations will consider whiping out Israel to settle the Islamic Jihad but not doing so.


It's a miracle that Israel became a nation again. Every other nation that has ever been invaded over and over again has had it's people dispersed into seperate societies never to return home again. lost forever.

The Jews had been dispersed for 2000years...

But it says Israel will become a nation again in a single day! No other nation has ever done this.

How did the Bible know the temple mount and Israel would cause the mighty nations (USA/Russia/China) to consider allowing the Islamic people to annihilate Israel for the hope of "peace"?

How did the Bible know about Islam and the Islamic Jihad?


It makes many other bold predictions concerning what is happening to Israel in our time..
Is also makes bold propehcies about Disease, Poverty, Global Warming (Yes it even mentions Global Warming and the melting of the ice caps, and ice on mountain tops).
The Bible talks about many of the countries on earth today, their military might, political views and world importance. Russia, China, Syria, Iran, Lebannon, Palestine, Egypt, USA, and many others.

[Acumen]

That ought to spark some debate!

Welcome aboard!!!