Why?

[metis]

Why is it that so many of us Jews seem to have a fascination with some of the Eastern religions, especially Buddhism and Hinduism?  Moment magazine had an article about this several months ago, and they mentioned that so many Israelis coming out of the IDF take a vacation in India and so often bring back interests in these religions.

Why do you think this is the case?



Shabbat shalom

[agnon1]

Because many of us feel that we can explore other faith systems that are not theistic.

Christianity is too burdened by the many years of oppression of Jews, although of course that has not stopped many Jews from converting. Buddhism in particular involves a practical spiritual practice that does not require one to adopt avodah zara; at least the Zen falvor that so assiduously avoids supernatural concerns and deified Buddhas.

[Acumen]

Because many of us feel that we can explore other faith systems that are not theistic.

Christianity is too burdened by the many years of oppression of Jews, although of course that has not stopped many Jews from converting. Buddhism in particular involves a practical spiritual practice that does not require one to adopt avodah zara; at least the Zen falvor that so assiduously avoids supernatural concerns and deified Buddhas.

I don't know if it has anything more to do with current oppressive forces than it does with a required change in culture.  Presumably, a Jew will not have to change essential, lifestyle routines in order to make good use of Buddhist practices.  Christianity, on the other hand, requires a paradigm shift which is more difficult to pull off unless one felt a spiritual reformation was necessary.

[river]

I don't believe all that many Jews are interested in Eastern religions.  Just some that come on these kinds of forums.  I don't know any Jews (and I know a lot) who are that interested in any religion even their own!   Many Jews think of themselves as a "people" but are not very wrapped up in the religious stuff.   If they are, they post on forums, or go to synagogue regularly, or keep a kosher home.  I don't know many Jews that do all that, even though they think of themselves as Jewish, and are not interested in leaving the Jewish people for another religion.  jmo

[Acumen]

River,

Do you believe that some of us are overgeneralizing?

[metis]

I don't believe all that many Jews are interested in Eastern religions. 

I guess we would have to define "many", which would be tough to do, and I agree with you that most Jews appear not to be that interested in other religions.  But when we look, for example, at the numbers of Jews involved in Buddhist meditation, our numbers out-proportion those of Christians, for example, by all indications.  One gentleman on the Buddhism Debate board over at BNet that I talked to a couple of years ago mentioned that about a third of people involved with his group were Jewish.  And so many of the American Buddhist leaders and authors also are Jewish.  I have also run across this personally as well, including my rabbi who's studied Buddhism and Hinduism in Thailand, Vietnam, India, and Nepal.  And the article I mentioned in the Moment issue several months ago mentioned that it's a very common phenominon with Israelis visiting India and bring back some of the ideas and practices of both Hinduism and Buddhism.

Personally, I don't see this a being intrinsically "bad" since I do not see any religious tradition as having all the "truths".  To me, it makes sense to study other beliefs and practices and learn from them ideas that might well be useable with ourselves.  Many of us love to travel to other countries and other cultures to learn and experience, so I see some positive effects that might be gained by studying other religions as well. 

However, there's admittedly a price that might be payed, namely that one may become less secure in their own religion.  You know, like the old cliche goes, if you have one clock, you know what time it is; but if you have two, you never can be sure.     

[Acumen]

Vern,

What do you like about Buddhism that you could find anywhere else?

[agnon1]

River

Just to add to what Vern has stated, the number of ethnic Jews involved in American Buddhism is actually shocking. While I agree that it still lags far behind the appeal of apathy or the Democratic Party for most American Jews, there is a very large number who are committed Buddhists. And that doesn't even count the number of Rabbis in various streams that have studied Buddhism and then incorporated some aspects of meditation into Jewish observance.

[agnon1]

Acumen

Presumably, a Jew will not have to change essential, lifestyle routines in order to make good use of Buddhist practices.  Christianity, on the other hand, requires a paradigm shift which is more difficult to pull off unless one felt a spiritual reformation was necessary.

Agreed. There is no inherent conflict between keeping Kosher or Shabbat and practicing mindfulness meditation.  But for a Jew to become a Christian requires making major theological adjustments--ie, accepting incarnation, a Trinitarian understanding of the Godhead etc, that is then superimposed on a variety of communal taboos.

[Acumen]

Acumen

Presumably, a Jew will not have to change essential, lifestyle routines in order to make good use of Buddhist practices.  Christianity, on the other hand, requires a paradigm shift which is more difficult to pull off unless one felt a spiritual reformation was necessary.

Agreed. There is no inherent conflict between keeping Kosher or Shabbat and practicing mindfulness meditation.  But for a Jew to become a Christian requires making major theological adjustments--ie, accepting incarnation, a Trinitarian understanding of the Godhead etc, that is then superimposed on a variety of communal taboos.

I would agree that the incarnation is a biggie, even a necessity for being a Christian, however the Trinity is a different issue altogether.  As a Christian, I don't accept the traditional view of the Trinity - to me, it's a violation of strict monotheism.

[river]

I personally don't know any Jews who are Buddhists, but I'm sure there are Jews who are.  The eight fold path of Buddhism, as far as I can know,  does not compete with Jewish teachings in it's inherent beliefs. Jewish teachings, so far as I know, has no problems with meditation, though I have heard some fundy preachers on TV caution strongly that meditation was the road to sin and hell!  How absurd.

When I had the bookstore, we sold many books on Eastern religions, mainly to gentiles or Christians, not absolutely sure.  Mainly we sold books on the Tao, and Tibetan Buddhism.  They were big favorites among clients.  Couldn't tell you what religion the people were.  There are a few  Jewish book stores around my neighborhood.  I've not checked to see if the sell books on Buddhism, but I doubt they do.

But we sold tons of books and tapes on meditation!  They were very popular and they didn't seem to represent any particular religion.  I listened to a few.  They were OK, but I thought a little ditsy.  jmo

[metis]

What do you like about Buddhism that you could find anywhere else?

Nothing.  I think much of what we find in dharma can be found at least somewhere in many other religions. 

However, what I have seen is that Buddhism has such a long history of dealing with mindfullness, meditation, compassion for all sentient beings, etc., and it has done so for around 2500 years.  Also, Buddhism is less interested in the past than in the present, and it doesn't rely on "belief".  For example, it makes no difference whether the Buddha actually existed, and one is expected to question and challenge even the most basic dharma. And for those of us who have a scientific orientation, this is like music to our ears.

What one is expected to do is to take dharma and try it on for size.  What fits-- use.  What doesn't fit-- discard.  My experience is that this approach is quite uplifting as I'm not expected to believe in anything that cannot somehow be confirmed by my own experiences and observations.  Being the "skeptic" does have some advantages, but some disadvantages as well.

[Acumen]

What one is expected to do is to take dharma and try it on for size.  What fits-- use.  What doesn't fit-- discard.

Do you think this relativistic approach has kept it from abusing power like the Catholic Church prior to the Great Reformation?

[river]

Metis,

Your last post on Buddhism sounds exactly like Judaism without some of the holidays.  I do disagree however with the idea of the caste system, which I believe (not sure) may be part of dharma.  Hindus disagree that the caste system came form pure Hinduism, and my understanding is that Buddhism came out of Hinduism.  My daughter in laws sister married a convert to Buddhism, but it was tough. She seemed happy at first, but she lost a lot of weight, eating practically nothing but certain types of foods and finally looked emaciated.  They parted after a few years, and she looked much better after several months.  She now lives in India, though she was brought up in the US.  I expect she will return one day soon, and stay here.  jmo.

[metis]

Do you think this relativistic approach has kept it from abusing power like the Catholic Church prior to the Great Reformation?

Yes and no.  Buddhist history has a fair amount of violence associated with it, and sometimes schools would even go to war against each other, although this was not that terribly common.  OTOH, since dharma encourages a more individual approach, including being less judgemental towards others, it has not had as violent a history as many other faiths.

The abuse of power in Christianity does not end with Catholicism, and we know from history that the Protestant reformers often tended to do much the same.  Remember that the Wars of Religion plagued Europe for over a century, and "tolerance" was not the rubric they were working from.  Luther and Calvin, for example, were notoriously intolerant of other religious points of view. 

I think part of that causation comes from the nature of monotheism and the establishment of binding creeds.  After all, if we believe in the same God, but we differ with what this God may require of us, there's a built in greater chance of conflict.  OTOH, religions that have a polytheistic origin and are less credal, such as Hinduism, tend to have much lower levels of conflict in their history (most Hindu schools today teach monotheism, but a great deal of individual interpretation is still very much allowed).

[metis]

Your last post on Buddhism sounds exactly like Judaism without some of the holidays. 

Maybe that's why so many Jews find Buddhism so appealing.

I do disagree however with the idea of the caste system, which I believe (not sure) may be part of dharma.  Hindus disagree that the caste system came form pure Hinduism, and my understanding is that Buddhism came out of Hinduism. 

Buddhism is strongly anti-caste and always has been.  And what you heard from Hindus is correct in that there's nothing in the Hindu scriptures that establishes caste and, in all actuality, it was a political/economic decision made many centuries ago that had strong racial overtones that created the caste system.  However, there was nothing in Hinduism that was necessarily opposed to it either, which is why it has continued to exist, even though it's waning especially in the more urban areas.

   

My daughter in laws sister married a convert to Buddhism, but it was tough. She seemed happy at first, but she lost a lot of weight, eating practically nothing but certain types of foods and finally looked emaciated.  They parted after a few years, and she looked much better after several months.  She now lives in India, though she was brought up in the US.  I expect she will return one day soon, and stay here.  jmo.

Vegetarianism is not required in Buddhism, but a great many Buddhists are vegetarian.  Even the Dalai Lama had to eat meat most of his life because of a problem he had with his digestive system (it's been medically corrected and now he is vegetarian).  Monks also will eat meat if the meat is not killed for them.  But the most important thing is that dharma does not require one to abstain from meat.   

[agnon1]

Metis ( Vern)

Amazon is listing a book to be published later this August called "Jewish Dharma: A Guide to the Practice of Judaism and Zen."

At first I thought that you might have written it, but unless Brenda Shoshanna is a clever psuedonym, I suspect not.

Check it out.

[Acumen]

If Vern wrote a book, I would read it.  Although I don't think he feels the same about me.   

[metis]

Metis ( Vern)

Amazon is listing a book to be published later this August called "Jewish Dharma: A Guide to the Practice of Judaism and Zen."

At first I thought that you might have written it, but unless Brenda Shoshanna is a clever psuedonym, I suspect not.

Check it out.

Thanks for the heads-up but, no, I didn't write it.    I am currently reading a book on Judaism and yoga, but I've only gotten about 2 chapters in so far, so I'm reserving judgement.

BTW, the book that especially got me going headlong on this almost 10 years ago was "Jew and the Lotus", which was recommended by my rabbi.  Did you read it by chance? 

Shabbat shalom.

[metis]

If Vern wrote a book, I would read it.  Although I don't think he feels the same about me.   

Well, thank you.  And, yes, I would read a book by you.  It would be a comic book, right?   

Seriously, I like to read books that seriously challenge us with ideas and approaches we may never have thought of.  Sometimes that experience can be painful, but it's often those kind of challenges that help make us grow.  I'm sure you and many others can relate to that.

So, what are you going to write about?

Haveaniceweekend.