Re: Republicans win on School Choice

[Faithfulee]

Lee, I'm pretty strong in my stance that it is the parents job to teach the kids about whatever god created whatnot, not the public schools.

all

I share your concern but it is mixed with concern.  Are children hurt more by failing to understand the nature of God and the blessings we enjoy here in America, or by them learning that America has been blessed, and even though we may work hard, we still need to give thanks for that "invisible hand" in our abundance, and in our religions that respond to Gods blessing.

The topic is CHARTER SCHOOLS mostly, but vouchers are another way of breaking the headlock that the teachers Unions and administrators have on our childrens education.

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Lee, I'm pretty strong in my stance that it is the parents job to teach the kids about whatever god created whatnot, not the public schools.

all

I share your concern but it is mixed with concern.  Are children hurt more by failing to understand the nature of God and the blessings we enjoy here in America, or by them learning that America has been blessed, and even though we may work hard, we still need to give thanks for that "invisible hand" in our abundance, and in our religions that respond to Gods blessing.

Ok, I put this in a new area as to not derail the other topic. 

My issue is that public schools are not to teach such things.  If someone wants their kids to be taught that America is blessed, then, that's up to them. 

Either way in your example, I have issues with it.  I don't believe in the god that you think blessed America, so why would I want them taught in school about his blessings for America?

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[Faithfulee]

Ok, I put this in a new area as to not derail the other topic. 

My issue is that public schools are not to teach such things.  If someone wants their kids to be taught that America is blessed, then, that's up to them. 

Either way in your example, I have issues with it.  I don't believe in the god that you think blessed America, so why would I want them taught in school about his blessings for America?

all
[/quote]

Do your children sing "God Bless America"

I have been on every continent, visited dozens of countries around the world at times with my children and family, and there is no doubt that God has indeed blessed this land of ours.  I have taught my children that blessing and am pleased to note that my Grandchildren also have gotten the message, even from the parents that are agnostic and feel much as you do. 

My family members who are teachers also bring this message to their students, in one way or another.  I don't know of any parental complaints.

You are entitled to raise your children as you see fit, but for me I love this country, believe to the core of my being that we have been blessed in many many ways and are a unique entity in God's creation.  I hope my grandchildren have the same respect and even tears in their eyes as I do sometimes, when they sing "God Bless America" with their schoolmates.

An in the charter school that my agnostic son-in-law operates, I am sure that the message also gets through.  The board responds to the desires of the parents and my opinion is that virtually all parents revere this great country and appreciate that God (as they understand God) has indeed blessed this great nation.

Thanks for the opportunity to respond.

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Do your children sing "God Bless America"Huh

Well, Lee, I've got to be honest, I don't have any kids. We've been trying for years, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen without fertility specialists. 

I have been on every continent, visited dozens of countries around the world at times with my children and family, and there is no doubt that God has indeed blessed this land of ours.

I have been on several continents and visited several countries, and there is no doubt that this one has a higher standard of living and is more prosperous, but that does not mean that I believe we were blessed by a deity. 

You are entitled to raise your children as you see fit, but for me I love this country, believe to the core of my being that we have been blessed in many many ways and are a unique entity in God's creation.

If children are taught this belief it interferes with a parents right to raise their child as they see fit.    Because you believe something to the core of your being does not mean that it should be taught in public school. 

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[Faithfulee]

All

I am a grandpa and  not too many years before  great grandparenting, and I admit to going a bit limp, when I see children interact.  Parenting to me is the greatest profession on earth and  my concern is for children first.

Children deserve better parenting than they are getting and  appreciating the role of God in their lives (no matter how they conceptualize God) is  critically important in their lives.  In “choice” schools, the matter of religion is handled differently depending more on the parents than of public school  rules and regulations.  To me that is a good thing.

I agree that parents should have prime responsibility for raising their children.  My wife and I cherished that responsibility, but we also encouraged a  open and wide ranging  appreciation of God in how our children raised their children.  But we stood firm in our faith, and nothwithstanding what  our Children did to our Grandchildren,  I  believe that they respect  our (my late wife’s and my current) views on religion and  it  will  be a factor as they develop an understanding of life and the “nature” of God.

In any event,  if the Republicans  promote choice in education,  I  believe that it will be a winning  issue for them.  Democrats are too dependent on teacher unions to be able to deal with this issue. 

[Some Darn Xian]

In any event,  if the Republicans  promote choice in education,  I  believe that it will be a winning  issue for them.  Democrats are too dependent on teacher unions to be able to deal with this issue.

The principle of the public education system is that all children are allowed the opportunity for an education. That is the simplest way to view publicly financed education.

The problem I see with any school choice program is the lack of oversight that is permitted to the public as to the use of those funds.

In the Milwaukee area, there have been close to a dozen schools over the last five years that have absconded with the funds they were given. Schools left without educational materials for much of the year, staff that isn't paid and thus leaves, and the administration of the choice schools is found standing in front of a camera with a deer-in-the-headlights expression.

I sympathize with a parent's dilemma over schools. I have been in both systems with my children. What I can tell you from my experience is the parochial schools in general fail to teach the kids the basics of science and math. The reading and writing is on par with the public schools. The other thing that seems to be handedly in place is an attitude of judgment.

So, what does that mean? The public high school is so over capacity that teachers on carts are running down the halls to meet with their class in a stairwell. The kids are doing anything and everything from fighting to drugs in the building.

After middle school, private high school was the only option. And the school is one of the few in the area that does not participate in school choice. And this is something that shows in a 97% college entrance rate for graduates. The other private schools that take choice are lucky to hit the mid-80% range.

The problem with the choice programs is the parents of some of the participants are not getting the education they need as to what they are expected to do.

The argument that the choice programs are held up by the teachers unions are short sighted. I am not in favor of the school choice programs that are currently in place in a general sense. There is a lack of oversight and an intentional lack of enforcement control on some of the schools.

Remove the arbitrarily established standards of No Child Left Behind and get something tangible in place. Make all schools subject to the standards of a testing process that makes education in a general sense the goal, not the ability to answer standardized testing questions.

I have seen a decline in the educational process since NCLB came into being. I also see a group of teachers that were trying to make a difference simply throwing up their hands at the frustration. The administration that controls much of the school environment are now playing with numbers and spreadsheets in an attempt to make things look better than they are.

I don't understand how a conservative or a liberal can see the current educational system as a whole as being anything but a disgrace.

Bring back mandatory Latin instruction for all students. I studied it for 5 years. It did very little for my Latin speaking skills, but it help immensely with my English and other logic dependent skills. There is no "slang" in Latin. It is what it is. The kind of structure Latin provides in education is something that seems to have fallen away from the educational system. The early grades are about learning how to learn. Now, it seems to be prep work for how to take tests.

I am not happy with what has happened in the last 20 years with education. I have seen changes since my daughter has moved up through the elementary system.

And the general abilities of some of the recent college grads I encounter is down right scary.

New system, devoid of any political aims, simply aimed at getting kids educated. The penalties on parents need to be kicked up.

AND GET RID OF THE "PROUD PARENT" BUMPER STICKERS!!!!

We get it. You're proud of kid.

Hang up and DRIVE!!!!!!!!

[Acumen]

I sympathize with a parent's dilemma over schools. I have been in both systems with my children. What I can tell you from my experience is the parochial schools in general fail to teach the kids the basics of science and math. The reading and writing is on par with the public schools. The other thing that seems to be handedly in place is an attitude of judgment.

You do realize what the graduation rate of the Milwaukee public school system is, right?  And you want to criticize parochial schools for a failure to teach?

[Faithfulee]

I don’t know the Milwaukee schools but Wikipedia reports that the schools had a dropout rate among the highest 5 in the Country.

A school voucher program has been in effect and  “. The 2006-2007 school year will mark the first time that more than $100 million will be paid in vouchers, as twenty-six percent of Milwaukee students will receive public funding to attend schools outside the MPS system”

What has been the result.  Please provide a link for reference.

[Acumen]

I don’t know the Milwaukee schools but Wikipedia reports that the schools had a dropout rate among the highest 5 in the Country.

A school voucher program has been in effect and  “. The 2006-2007 school year will mark the first time that more than $100 million will be paid in vouchers, as twenty-six percent of Milwaukee students will receive public funding to attend schools outside the MPS system”

What has been the result.  Please provide a link for reference.

It's been quite the stir here in Milwaukee, and I'm sure SDX is aware of it.  We ranked about 15 percentage points behind Las Angeles with graduation rates.  I don't even need to see the data from parochial schools in this area to know that the graduation rates will be much higher than 50%.  I graduated from a parochial school.  I went on to the University of Parkside and stayed on the Dean's List for a few years.  Everyone in my small class graduated.

[Faithfulee]

It's been quite the stir here in Milwaukee, and I'm sure SDX is aware of it.  We ranked about 15 percentage points behind Las Angeles with graduation rates.  I don't even need to see the data from parochial schools in this area to know that the graduation rates will be much higher than 50%.  I graduated from a parochial school.  I went on to the University of Parkside and stayed on the Dean's List for a few years.  Everyone in my small class graduated.

It looks like the premise is correct.  Do you think it is worth antagonizing the teachers unions?

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Children deserve better parenting than they are getting and  appreciating the role of God in their lives (no matter how they conceptualize God) is  critically important in their lives.

Children do deserve better parenting than what they are getting.  My wife and I seem to have a semi monthly discussion on the dichotomy between having to be licensed to own a pet, but they let just anyone have kids.  (only half joking)

Would you like to have the schools talk about the role of the gods in our lives, or are we limited to monotheistic sentiment?

And I agree, private schools are one thing, public quite another.  I have no issue with private schools doing whatever they wish.

all

[Faithfulee]

Children deserve better parenting than they are getting and  appreciating the role of God in their lives (no matter how they conceptualize God) is  critically important in their lives.

Children do deserve better parenting than what they are getting.  My wife and I seem to have a semi monthly discussion on the dichotomy between having to be licensed to own a pet, but they let just anyone have kids.  (only half joking)

Would you like to have the schools talk about the role of the gods in our lives, or are we limited to monotheistic sentiment?

And I agree, private schools are one thing, public quite another.  I have no issue with private schools doing whatever they wish.

all

While I support public schools, I believe that there is lost of room for improvement in our public schools.  Giving parents a choice is one good way to waken the Public School bureaucracy.

I also believe that the problems in our public schools lie mostly in inner city areas.  I don't know the statistics, but I suspect that parocihial schools do a better job there then do public schools.  Having public schools teach "religion"  is not a good thing,  but not having them teach respect for GOD is evern worse.

By offering parents a choice for their childrens' schools gives them some authority in the decision and should encourage them to be more engaged in their childrens education.  I come from a tradition where parents do take a lot of interest in their children's education and it is difficult for me to conceive of a family situation where parent's don't give a damn.  Sadly I know this happens.

[Faithfulee]

The Catholic school children in the Milwaukee Archdiocese average in the 70th percentile for Iowa testing, which is awesome and score 2 points higher on the ACT than the national average.

Thank you for that information.

And it demonstrates my point,  Republicans win on School Choice.

I am not a Roman Catholic and I don't subscribe to their practace of the faith,  BUT,  If I as in Milwaukee I certainly would send my children to catholic schools.  I can deal with the religious differences.  I couldn't deal with the inadequacy of the public school system. 

If more people acted as I would, the public schools would have to address the conditions that make it a failure.