Christianity vs Islam

[Faithfulee]

The Pope’s visit to the US should open up a dialogue that discusses the beliefs and the contributions of  Christians and Muslims in today’s world.

The Pope's recent baptism of a prominent Muslim has enraged the Islam world to the point that the Islam says “Kill the Pope”

This discussion should start with the difference that Christians hold over the word “Peace”

Christians believe in “The peace that passeth human understanding”  and all that means to practicing Christians.

Muslims have a different understanding of “Peace”.  Peace to the Muslim mind is the condition of the world when  Muslims rule the world  under Shariah law.  This basic belief is what allows Muslims to violate all the reasonable admonitions of the Koran and strap a bomb on themselves and with a smile on their face, blow up themselves and many innocent humans,  including their Muslim brothers.

The world must not be confused when  the Mullah’s  call for “Peace”.

I trust that we all understand this basic difference,  and then we can move on to illustrate more of the significant differences between  Christianity and Islam.

I hope that we have some Muslims who would contribute to this discussion


'

[jacknky]

Christians today like to think of Jesus and the Bible as only a message of peace and love. But there is another side, darker, more divisive and judgemental, that is available to those who desire a darker more judgemental god:

"And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garnent, and buy one." (Matt. 10:21)

"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: ands the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." (Matt. 10:21)

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch... and men cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6) (This verse was used to justify burning heretics in the Middle Ages.)

"Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners therof out of it... Everyone that is found will be thrust through; and everyone that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isiah 13:9, 15, 16)

"For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days; for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword..." (Luke 21:20-23)

"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother... and a man's foes shall be of they of his own household." (Matt. 10: 35-36)

"I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matt. 10:34)

[Acumen]

Jack,

I think you're having too much fun here.  :-)

[jacknky]

"I think you're having too much fun here.  :-)"

You're right. I need to get a life.

[Faithfulee]

Christians today like to think of Jesus and the Bible as only a message of peace and love. But there is another side, darker, more divisive and judgemental, that is available to those who desire a darker more judgemental god:

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch... and men cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6) (This verse was used to justify burning heretics in the Middle Ages.)

.......

"I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matt. 10:34)

Your quotes are right on of course.  Especially the refrence to the Middle Ages.
The Bible quotes have been debated for centuries and few if any Christians ACT OUT the more violence that the Bible may project.  Discussion and dialogue in the Christian communty have discovered deeper and more peaceful meaning from these passages.  That is what Christians are acting out, for the most part.

And that is in contrast to Isalm.  The aweful words of the Koran, words that not only justify, but demand violence against "unbelievers"  is the message the the worlds Islamic terrorists are carrying out,  and with the cheers of the Muslim masses, as they respond to their Mullahs who use these words, not to inform or discuss, but to inflame the ignorant Muslim masses to violence.  

Yafa Sultan a former Muslim and outspoken women against Islam today says what Islam needs is to change from a "Middle Age Mentality" to a 21st century Mentality.  That comment incidentally was one that ended my participation in Beliefnet. Islam doesn't have any intention of changing from their middle age mentality.

I hope you are having fun Jack.  I am too, but I take this subject very seriously.  I hope we can continue this "fun" and perhaps each of us will learn something.

[Faithfulee]

The Pope’s visit to the US should open up a dialogue that discusses the beliefs and the contributions of  Christians and Muslims in today’s world.


This discussion should start with the difference that Christians hold over the word “Peace”

Christians believe in “The peace that passeth human understanding”  and all that means to practicing Christians.

Muslims have a different understanding of “Peace”.  Peace to the Muslim mind is the condition of the world when  Muslims rule the world  under Shariah law.  This basic belief is what allows Muslims to violate all the reasonable admonitions of the Koran and strap a bomb on themselves and with a smile on their face, blow up themselves and many innocent humans,  including their Muslim brothers.

The world must not be confused when  the Mullah’s  call for “Peace”.

I am proud to requote this because my position was just reinforced by none other than Rush Limaugh.  Rush commenting on the Carter visit to Hammas said that Carter would come home proclaiming that Hammas wanted peace in the Middle East.
In Isamic definition, Carter is right, but let us not be fooled . . . as I fear many in the US will.

[oneinchrist1963]

Christians today like to think of Jesus and the Bible as only a message of peace and love. But there is another side, darker, more divisive and judgemental, that is available to those who desire a darker more judgemental god:

"And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garnent, and buy one." (Matt. 10:21)

"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: ands the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." (Matt. 10:21)

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch... and men cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6) (This verse was used to justify burning heretics in the Middle Ages.)

"Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners therof out of it... Everyone that is found will be thrust through; and everyone that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isiah 13:9, 15, 16)

"For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days; for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword..." (Luke 21:20-23)

"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother... and a man's foes shall be of they of his own household." (Matt. 10: 35-36)

"I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matt. 10:34)

Off the top of my head most of those were passages describing future events, time in the future, possibly what they call the end days. There is a time when an "antichrist" maybe a person or possibly a system or anyone who apposes the belief that Jesus is to be worshipped and recognized as the Only son of God.

any way this "anti christ" person or system rules the world around Israel and things come to a head after Israel is reborn in it's original lands, 

and the armies who support this antichrist system surround them and force them to subjugate to his rule and worship him as God.

It is eventually defeated and thrown in the lake of fire along with the devil himself who empowers this Antichrist.

you may have heard a little about this you cannot buy of sell without recieving his mark etc.

Well there is many who believe that this antichrist WAS Mohammad and he has already controlled the world around Israel, for 1000 years anyone who didn't worship allah was unable to worship buy or sell and life was hard.

But now knowing that his time is short is coming back with a vengence, in which he will engulf the world in war as he wages war on the saints. (terrorism)
(2nd half of his reign)

Many who are knowledgeable in Christianity are still looking for an antichrist "person" that is still yet to come (they think) and the Muslims are awaiting a Mahdi.

This is why so many may be fooled.

People will call good bad and bad good.

How else can you explain that Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Palestinian violence and be considered "good" things

Yet Bush's response to Saddam, 911, and israeli defensive measures all meant to save innocent lives from brutal killers bent on death to all?

my 3 cents

[Faithfulee]

Well there is many who believe that this antichrist WAS Mohammad and he has already controlled the world around Israel, for 1000 years anyone who didn't worship allah was unable to worship buy or sell and life was hard.

But now knowing that his time is short is coming back with a vengence, in which he will engulf the world in war as he wages war on the saints. (terrorism)
(2nd half of his reign)

Many who are knowledgeable in Christianity are still looking for an antichrist "person" that is still yet to come (they think) and the Muslims are awaiting a Mahdi.

This is why so many may be fooled.

People will call good bad and bad good.

How else can you explain that Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Palestinian violence and be considered "good" things

Yet Bush's response to Saddam, 911, and israeli defensive measures all meant to save innocent lives from brutal killers bent on death to all?

my 3 cents

Welcome to the discussion.  Are you the OneinChrist from Beliefnet??  If so greetings from NJlee, who "retired" from Bnet because of their allowing Muslims to run certain cites under Islamic rules.

As to the above, I believe that Jesus Christ is the messanger who will bring us to the place where we can live out our lives with all those who we have loved in our lifetime.

But we are at war against a religion that functions on fear, hatred, and terror and who has tangible goals in the real world that threaten, not only our religious freedoms, but ALL American freedoms. 

OBL, alsadre, and other Muslim Mullas have signed on the  the goal of destroying our democracy, and installing Shariah law world wide.  I also believe that many American Muslims would like to see this also, and they are a danger to our communities.

Againn Welcome to the discussion and lets us continue the discussion.

[Faithfulee]

Suicide bomber strikes Iraq funeral 

At least 60 people have been killed in northern Iraq after a suicide bomber struck a funeral for two members of the US-backed Awakening Council movement, police sources have said.
 
The bomber detonated his suicide vest on Thursday in the village of Bu Muhammad near Tuz Khurmato, 120km south of the oil city of Kirkuk.

The bankruptcy of Islam is illustrated here once again.  Can you Imagine a Christian group killing people at a funeral to make a political point??  This is another illustration of the need to bring Islam from a middle age mentality to one of a civilized 21st Century one.


 
 

[jacknky]

fathfulee,
Ahh, so you're my old friend "NJlee" from B'net. It's good to hear from you again.

"Yafa Sultan a former Muslim and outspoken women against Islam today says what Islam needs is to change from a "Middle Age Mentality" to a 21st century Mentality.

I agree with this. I think the problem of extremism has more to do with the backward tribal nature of the societies than it does any particular religion. I think if their religious fervor can be leavened by good ol' 21st century reason then Muslims will be as capable of ignoring the more violent passages in their Holy Book as Christians are.

I think we need to be careful not to demonize a whole religion. I assume you'll acknowledge that the vast majority of Muslims lead peaceful lives. We need to be careful inidentifying our enemy. It is violent extremists, not the Muslim religion.

[Faithfulee]

fathfulee,
Ahh, so you're my old friend "NJlee" from B'net. It's good to hear from you again.

"Yafa Sultan a former Muslim and outspoken women against Islam today says what Islam needs is to change from a "Middle Age Mentality" to a 21st century Mentality.

I agree with this. I think the problem of extremism has more to do with the backward tribal nature of the societies than it does any particular religion. I think if their religious fervor can be leavened by good ol' 21st century reason then Muslims will be as capable of ignoring the more violent passages in their Holy Book as Christians are.

I think we need to be careful not to demonize a whole religion. I assume you'll acknowledge that the vast majority of Muslims lead peaceful lives. We need to be careful inidentifying our enemy. It is violent extremists, not the Muslim religion.

That is a common response, but I ask "why must we be careful?"  If Muslims don't believe that the shoe fits, let them complain.  This sounds harsh, but in my experience, we Chritians are much better NOT being so sensitive to Muslim's.  I knew a group of Muslims in New Jersey some years ago, and learned much.  Mostly, I learned that those who believed as I did came to me to be my friend.  They gave me a Koran in English and we came to understand each other quite well.  On the other hand two other group lived more solitary lives and their Mullah's ranted and raved and I honestly believe that they may have been sympathizers of the 9/11 Terrorists.  Also be reminded that a Pew Research study showed that 25% of young American Muslims put their faith first, and that to me makes them potential terrorists.

I ended my time at Beliefnet because I wouldn't yield when answering "What can be done to lessen Islamophobia".  I insisted that Muslims needed to denounce Islamic terrorism as often as it occurred.  That was determined to be off bounds, as set by the Muslim coordinators.  The typical response was that they did enough and only wanted to discuss "what else."

I am quite serious in the belief that we are facing a Jihad against Western Civilization an that virtually all Muslims are subject to being drawn into the Jihad by their religious leaders.  The growth of Islam to become larger than the Catholic Church is another warning sign.

Sadly cursader like Wafa Sultan are subject to death threats, as is anyone who speaks out.  We are facing a dangerous adversary, and we cannot allow ourselves to be intimidated.

[oneinchrist1963]

yes NJ it's me.

[oneinchrist1963]

yes NJ it's me.

You can't hold it against muslims, they are being fooled, like mohammad was. But IMO Mohammad knew, the rest is legend. Christians should pray they see the error of their ways. There were many christians who taught and lived as mohammad did over the time of the gentiles as well. and even as recent as rev wright and his church. A christian brand of extremist and hatred, they just have not brought it to the next level yet.

[Faithfulee]

yes NJ it's me.

You can't hold it against muslims, they are being fooled, like mohammad was. But IMO Mohammad knew, the rest is legend. Christians should pray they see the error of their ways. There were many christians who taught and lived as mohammad did over the time of the gentiles as well. and even as recent as rev wright and his church. A christian brand of extremist and hatred, they just have not brought it to the next level yet.

My wife and I pray daily that the hearts and minds of Muslims around the world will be opened to the word of God and come to know "the peace that passeth all understanding."

At the same time we cannot be blind to the ignorance of Muslims to the true word of God nor to the violence and hatred that seems to engulf Muslims.  Virtually all the terrorism in the world today is committed by Muslims, and sadly of course,  most of the Victims are also Muslims.

[oneinchrist1963]

I guess thats what happens when you have 1 billion people praying towards a place like mecca, or around a big square black rock.

Something that is a no no.

[Faithfulee]

It isn’t the  “prayers at the rock” that bother me, it is those Muslims who are committed to hate and ignorance and will kill anyone who they don’t like or who they think threatens Islam.

On Bnet, numersous Muslims say they are “Muslims first,  Americans next”

To me that means that they want an America run by Shiriah law,  and that is a dangerous condition. 

Is that another difference between a Christian and a Muslim

I am an active Christian but in Politics I put America First.  That is because, the America that I love  believes in religious freedom and our mentaqlity is such that we tolerate discussion.  Sadly (and tragically)l Muslims cannot tolerate discussion without  threatening to kill the dissenters for their point of view.

I also think it strange that  Shiaa and Sunni Muslims can kill each other over religious differnces, but they cannot tolerate the  suggestion that Islam is not the monolific  religion that they claim is offered in the Koran.  We Christians have differences,  but we can discuss them, and don’t feel compelled to kill those who disagree with the way we practice the faith.

It is a shame that there are no Muslims here to engage in this debate. 

[Faithfulee]

I searched but could not find a visit to a Mosque on Pope Benedict’s itinerary.  I did note that there will be dialoque between Muslims and the pope during this visit.  While I am sure that the “Kill the Pope” crowd will set the agenda, the feelings will still reside in the minds and hearts of  some of the Muslims in attendance.

An interesting domment from CAIR

Parvez Ahmed is Chairman of Council on American-Islamic Relations. He says demonization of Islam in the Christian West is a serious problem. "Many mainstream religious leaders have said very derogatory things about the Prophet Muhammad, about Islam and about Allah [God] in a way  that if it had been said for any other faith or group there would be a major backlash on it," he said. "Unfortunately these important figures, religious and political figures made these hateful comments about Islam and in some sense they got away with it." He adds Muslims must follow their religious teachings and respect other faiths to foster better relations.

To me this demonstrates the shallow and defensive nature of Islam.  Islam cannot tolerate discussion or debate.  Any deviation from the Koranic line is more than heresey,  it is hatred.  As the author brings up here.  I wonder how the author reconciles those who want to kill the Pope with “respect other faiths”

[Acumen]

Christians today like to think of Jesus and the Bible as only a message of peace and love. But there is another side, darker, more divisive and judgemental, that is available to those who desire a darker more judgemental god:

"And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garnent, and buy one." (Matt. 10:21)

"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: ands the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." (Matt. 10:21)

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch... and men cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6) (This verse was used to justify burning heretics in the Middle Ages.)

"Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners therof out of it... Everyone that is found will be thrust through; and everyone that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isiah 13:9, 15, 16)

"For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days; for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword..." (Luke 21:20-23)

"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother... and a man's foes shall be of they of his own household." (Matt. 10: 35-36)

"I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matt. 10:34)

I think your falling into that category of posters that find the isolated passages to confirm preconceived biases without regard to understanding why those verses exist.

[Faithfulee]

It reveals a significan difference between Christianity and Islam

We Christians can discuss the meanings of the bible passages that we read.  As we do so, we find new and more significant meanings and a deeper understanding of the action of God in our lives, the lives others and throughout history.

Islam is rigid and regards questions as threats and responds with hate.

As I watched the Pope recently, my prayers go out to American Muslims.  May they find the real word of God and discover the peace and freedom that is part of our Christian heritage.

[Faithfulee]

This may be better on anothertopic but many Muslims say "I am a Muslim first, and an American second, and that makes me a better American"

I am a Christian, but that is my persona, not my politics.  I don't put my Christianity above my patriotism in my public life.  There are things that are taught me as a Christian, that have a difficult fit in my public life (Abortion, for example).

From what I understand about Islam is it's absolutism and it's commitment to violence against non-muslims.  I don't believe that such beliefs make one a better America.

Do you??