Why do they deserve it?

[VLinvictus]

What did the Iraqi people ever do to deserve being liberated from a brutal dictator and given the chance to create democracy?

[Acumen]

Absolutely nothing.

[VLinvictus]

Absolutely nothing.

Then why are we wasting our lives and money to build a democracy for them? They like dictators -- if they didn't, they would have made at least a token resistance to Saddam. Why could we not have given them one, one malleable and amenable to our interests. Would it not have been better to back some ambitious general in Saddam's army and help him mount a coup with covert support? You know, like we did for Pinochet?

[WorldWarrior]

"The only part of your life that has been wasted for them is writing these posts about them and I doubt that you personally have contributed much money for the cause either. "




How about those Billions of dollars in US Tax Money that are being used to reconstruct Iraq instead of fixing the crumbling infrastructure of the US?


And how about those 4000+ dead US Troops?

And the 300,000+ soldiers coming back from Iraq with lifelong TBI (Traumatic Brain Injuries) and/or PTSD?

And the 40,000+ seriously injured Troops from Iraq?


Aren't those "Costs" too?

[Acumen]

How about those Billions of dollars in US Tax Money that are being used to reconstruct Iraq instead of fixing the crumbling infrastructure of the US?

It's sort of humorous when liberals complain about billions of dollars being spent when their ideology is based upon spending and expanding the federal government.  How much money are we going to spend on the recent global warming bill congress tried to pass?  How much money does Obama want to spend on his global poverty initiative?  It's not chump change, but yet he's all about saving when it involves cutting our national defense. 

[WorldWarrior]

"It's sort of humorous when liberals complain about billions of dollars being spent when their ideology is based upon spending and expanding the federal government."




Apples and oranges.

All those Billions of US Dollars--so far half a TRILLION that we know of--have been spent on SOMEONE ELSE's country.

Which makes the rest of your objections moot--

 
"How much money are we going to spend on the recent global warming bill congress tried to pass?  How much money does Obama want to spend on his global poverty initiative?  It's not chump change, but yet he's all about saving when it involves cutting our national defense."


These are for our OWN COUNTRY--plus some Humanitarian Causes.

Not for waging continuous Occupation and War.



There has been NO PROOF that all those Billions being spent in Iraq have anything to do with the Defense and Security of the US.

[Adrian1197]

What did the Iraqi people ever do to deserve being liberated from a brutal dictator and given the chance to create democracy?

What could they do? Maybe you should stop and reconsider what it actually means to live under a dictator.

[VLinvictus]

What could they do? Maybe you should stop and reconsider what it actually means to live under a dictator.

There was resistance against Hitler, within the army and in grassroots movements. They almost succeeded on several occasions.

If there could be resistance against Hitler, why could there not have been resistance against Saddam?

[VLinvictus]

It's sort of humorous when liberals complain about billions of dollars being spent when their ideology is based upon spending and expanding the federal government.  How much money are we going to spend on the recent global warming bill congress tried to pass?  How much money does Obama want to spend on his global poverty initiative?  It's not chump change, but yet he's all about saving when it involves cutting our national defense. 

Do you just post the first thing that comes into your head without thinking it through? As WW pointed out, there if a tremendous difference. The money being wasted in Iraq (not to mention the lives and blood) is being sucked out of our pockets through taxes. Do you not understand that? The government is taking money out of your paycheck and flushing it down the toilet that is Iraq.

If the government is going to flush my money down a metaphorical toilet, I'd rather it be an American toilet.

Our military budget is vast, practically inconceivable. Any reduction in that budget is purely an academic exercise since numbers that large just don't actually mean anything.

[Adrian1197]

What could they do? Maybe you should stop and reconsider what it actually means to live under a dictator.

There was resistance against Hitler, within the army and in grassroots movements. They almost succeeded on several occasions.

If there could be resistance against Hitler, why could there not have been resistance against Saddam?

There were a few small uprisings against Saddam. All of which were ruthelessly disposed of.

[VLinvictus]

There were a few small uprisings against Saddam. All of which were ruthelessly disposed of.

A few small uprisings.

If a people wants to be free, no dictator can stand in its way. I submit that the Iraqi people never wanted to be "free."

[WorldWarrior]

VL--Hi.

I don't want to overcomplicate your thread--but the Kurds do come to mind.

George Herbert Walker Bush--Bush 41--encouraged them to rebel against Saddam--saying in effect that the US would back them.


And then why the Kurds did rebel Bush 41 did nothing--and thousands--perhaps hundreds of thousands of Kurds died. It is thought that Sadddam used some of those chemical WMDs that the US had given him previously--to kill so many Kurds.

So--if the Kurds had asked us to intervene/invade for them--they might have had a just cause.

But all we had was the Chalabis--people who called themselves "Iraqi Leaders"--but who had not been in their country in 20+ years--and who had NOT been "leaders" of any note when they were in Iraq.


And who were well-known among the Intelligence Services like the CIA--to have been making a lot of things up just to keep getting those hundreds of thousands of dollars in US money to keep singing their anti-Saddam song.

[Acumen]

Do you just post the first thing that comes into your head without thinking it through? As WW pointed out, there if a tremendous difference. The money being wasted in Iraq (not to mention the lives and blood) is being sucked out of our pockets through taxes. Do you not understand that? The government is taking money out of your paycheck and flushing it down the toilet that is Iraq.

If the government is going to flush my money down a metaphorical toilet, I'd rather it be an American toilet.

Surely you're joking.  When it comes to politics, your behavior is rather erratic.  You go from the ever-logical Mr. Spock when discussing philosophy and religion, then you end up agreeing with Worldwarrior in your politics -- and you question whether I think? 

No, . . . you're the one that doesn't think.  Obama's proposal called the "Global Poverty Act" would essentially flush 845 billion American dollars down the 3rd world toilet by 2015.  Do YOU understand that?  Do you understand that pouring money into 3rd world countries makes little to no impact compared to the more massive resources available by developing countries by trade and and foreign investment? 

Right now, the U.S. is the largest spender via foreign direct investment in these developing countries.  We are the largest importer of products from developing countries and the largest provider of both development and humanitarian assistance by unprecedented numbers.  The measure of resources coming from mechanisms of trade and investment literally micrifies official aid flows.  And the worst thing is that there's little evidence to suggest that massive amounts of foreign aid actually helps with longer term development of 3rd world nations.  We've spent about 2 trillion dollars since the 60's, and we've seen little return for the investment to reduce global poverty.  Why?  Money doesn't solve the problem.

So no, I did not agree to have my taxes pay for the 3rd world poverty.  The federal government has no business forcing us to support other nations, especially in a way where our money is pissed away.  At least with Iraq, it has some bearing on our national security and better relations in the middle east. 

[WorldWarrior]

"So no, I did not agree to have my taxes pay for the 3rd world poverty.  The federal government has no business forcing us to support other nations, especially in a way where our money is pissed away.  At least with Iraq, it has some bearing on our national security and better relations in the middle east"



Then why are you for spending all our money on Iraq?

We get NO "national security" results since Iraq was never a threat to us anyway.

And other countries in the Middle East now see us as grasping Westerners with an ill-educated and ill-informed Dictator for a leader.

Hardly worth all the BILLIONS of dollars we are throwing into the Iraq "toilet"--don't you think?

[Thorolf]

What could they do? Maybe you should stop and reconsider what it actually means to live under a dictator.

There was resistance against Hitler, within the army and in grassroots movements. They almost succeeded on several occasions.

If there could be resistance against Hitler, why could there not have been resistance against Saddam?

There was.

[Faithfulee]

The Iraqis did nothing to deserve being liberated from sad man.

The measure of an honest commitment to do the right thing is that  one need not deserve it.  That should make America’s  success even higher on the moral scale.

But we did get something from the liberation.  It is part of the process that got us  SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS OF SAFETY.

What the libs and Bush Bashers don’t appreciate is that we have helped create a DEMOCRACY IN THE MIFFLE EAST.

A functioning Democracy is the best bulwark against Islamic Terroism. 

The Iraqis may not deserve democracy, but having a working democracy will make Iraq, the US and the world  safer and more prosperous.

[Acumen]

I concur. 

[Faithfulee]

I concur. 

to my need for spellcheck or my ideas??

[Acumen]

There is no shame in downloading the new firefox for spell checking.  Heck, if I didn't have it, my posts would have all sorts of spelling errors.  Also, this website works much better with firefox than anything else.

[Faithfulee]

There is no shame in downloading the new firefox for spell checking.  Heck, if I didn't have it, my posts would have all sorts of spelling errors.  Also, this website works much better with firefox than anything else.

OK, I will reform.

I have a spell checker on Internet explorer and it works fine.  It only picked up "firefox" this time.

But this is off topic by a mile.