Jews on Hell

[river]

Humm,  Depends on how one defines "living it up".  I feel that some of my life was very good, and some pretty awful, but all you can do is the best that you can do, and that's what I have tried to do. 

[river]

Metis wrote:

"Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the end of human existence.

But Alzheimer's Disease is.  Watch the living death of the mind, and tell me that when the brain dies, as my mother's did, a person still has some kind of life.

[metis]

But Alzheimer's Disease is.  Watch the living death of the mind, and tell me that when the brain dies, as my mother's did, a person still has some kind of life.

Yes.  My father and maternal grandmother, both of which my wife and I took care of, died of Alzheimer's directly.  What I mean by "directly" is that most die due to complications from Alzheimer's, but in both their cases, their brain just deteriorated to the point whereas there were no more signals being sent to the heart and/or respiratory system.

So I very much do sympathize with your loss, and I hope the only memories that you have of your mother are the good ones.

Shalom, river.

[bunsinspace]

So I very much do sympathize with your loss, and I hope the only memories that you have of your mother are the good ones.

Shalom, river.

BS"D

I second that sentiment.

[river]

But what I meant was, if the brain can deteriorate while still alive, and the person cannot remember their loved ones or how to hold a fork, or have any memories,  how, after total death of the body and brain (which is part of the body) can the person still be aware of anything?  They are gone. 

Isn't the idea of any awareness or life after death an impossibility?   How, within nature, can that be?  Isn't the teachings an afterlife a story made up in the bible to comfort people about death or even threaten them if they didn't follow the rules of their church or their state.  And isn't, if this religious idea is instilled in a child something they will hang on to and find reasons for, even though it just can't be.  So then, I hear the answer.  With God, anything is possible.  To which I answer.  If you believe in God, you believe anything is possible.  But belief is not evidence, belief is not fact.  Belief is belief.  The real answer is, what is truth? 

[metis]

But belief is not evidence, belief is not fact.  Belief is belief.  The real answer is, what is truth? 

Amen and well said.  Welcome to the chaotic world of non-theism.   

[VLinvictus]

Isn't the teachings an afterlife a story made up in the bible to comfort people about death

No, actually. You'd be hard pressed to find anything that explicitly indicates an afterlife in Tanakh. We know that people prayed to their dead ancestors, and even sacrificed their infants to the god Molokh to get access to the ancestral spirits in the underworld, but nothing like that is condoned or expressed in the Bible. It's even likely that the extreme taboos placed on contact with corpses and on the disposal of blood were legislated to counteract the power of death cults -- either ones active in Canaan or the famous system in Egypt. Read Ecclesiastes or Job: both are clear that if there's anything after this, we don't and can't know anything about it. As far as we can tell, this is it.

or even threaten them if they didn't follow the rules of their church or their state.

Yes and no. Generally, the belief in the teachings of the religion needs to precede the establishment of the power of the religion. Once the religion is established, it can wield the threat of afterlife punishments to keep people in line, but the common and popular belief generally needs to come first.

But belief is not evidence, belief is not fact.  Belief is belief.  The real answer is, what is truth? 

Truth is whatever you make it to be.

[bunsinspace]

BS"D

A lot of this speculation on afterlife depends upon a precise understanding of self and awareness.  I am not comfortable that humanity has evolved to the point whereby any definitive statement can be made that is based upon either.  For all we know awareness could have an infinite degree of resolution.  For myself, it is only personal awareness which I can perceive as diminishing with my own consciousness.

[VLinvictus]

As much as I think it would be nice, I'm not all that comfortable with the idea of an individual soul, a "ghost in the machine" deal.

I have a vague idea that our brief candles of awareness are but the tiniest of flashes of thoughts in a "mind" that none of us puny beings can even hope to try to begin to grasp.

[Akiva]

Amen and well said.  Welcome to the chaotic world of non-theism.   

Don't let him fool you, River.  It has to be much less chaotic than the world of theism, imho.