Speaking With Other Tongues

[gracebyfaith]

Is speaking with other tongues a gift for only some or is it a gift for all who believe? 
Can you have other evidences of being filled with the Holy Spirit without speaking in
tongues?  Please share your Scriptures.

Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

[Acumen]

I think it is for all who believe.  But you know that already.   

[thedefender]

Gracebyfaith,

    The gift of speaking in tongues is the initial evidence that you have been baptized in the Holy Ghost. This may not be your "gift" but it will be the initial evidence of your having received the Holy Ghost.
 
     The scriptures bear this out that every time someone/group was filled with the Holy Ghost they began to speak with other tongues.

Blessings,

Derrick
thedefender

[gracebyfaith]

Derrick,
Are you saying there's a difference between speaking in tongues the first
time compared to there after?  Aren't they both gifts?  I'm not trying
to necessarily debate, because I spoke in tongues initially and have
continued.  I just can't seem to find Scriptures to say there's a difference
between the two.

I guess I'm asking these questions to find the answers. 

I agree the Scriptures show clearly that when people received the
Holy ghost they spake with other tongues.  I think there was one account
where it was strongly inferred, but didn't specifically say, "Spoke with
other tongues."

Do you believe this was and is the only initial evidence?  People can repent
and even show signs of the fruits of the Spirit (patience, gentleness,
kindness...) but must tongues be the initial evidence?

Thanks for your time.

[thedefender]

Gracebyfaith,

I understand the real intent of your inquiry.

No, I don't believe there is a difference between the first time and all the others.

Yes, the one account that you mention is Acts 8 I believe with the Sorcorer Simon. He apparently had seen many miracles before, but when he witnesses those who received the Holy Ghost he wants the power to impart the same gift to others, but he offers the apostles money. It can be infered that he witnesses those gathered there speaking in tongues.

The initial evidence thing makes sense to me because it's an outward show of an inward occurance. We do the same thing when we get saved. Salvation is an inward change, but we demonstrate that change outwardly through baptism and total immersion in water. Likewise, the Spirit works inside of us and we demonstrate that inside work with outside evidence: speaking in tongues. Yes, this is the only evidence because we do not see another pattern in holy scripture.

Now here's the clincher: what do we do with the baptists? (That's sort of a joke!) Anyway, our Baptist brothers claim to be filled with the Spirit upon salvation (and they are), but then again, they also manifest mercy, helps, administration, ministry in the word, etc. etc. All of these appear to be giftings from the Spirit. I do struggle with this, but here's how I explain it (how my simple mind understands it): Baptists and Methodist and all the other brothers in the faith that do not believe in the Spirit Baptism do demonstrate the Spirit's giftings but in a limited manner. *Maybe* some proof for my claim is the fact that many Baptist and Methodist (et al) churches are largely stagnant, while on the whole Pentecostal churches have and are growing by leaps and bounds. I have heard totals of 500 million members of various Pentecostal denominations, but don't quote me on this. . .

Blessings,

Derrick the Defender

[gracebyfaith]

Derrick,
I understand what you're saying.  I do believe speaking in
tongues is for everyone who believes. 

My difficulty is when people have sought to receive this gift
and haven't.  These are people who have walked with God,
and exhibit the fruits of the Spirit (often times more than
those who "speak with tongues").  It's very difficult for me
to explain that, and so I don't.

I think some Pentecostals place too much emphasis on
speaking with tongues more than on receiving the Holy Spirit.
As a result people feel pressured to speak in another tongue,
when only God can give them this gift.  I believe it should be
a natural process, not forced as though you're working for it. 
When the emphasis is speaking with tongues, it becomes laborious.

This is something I struggle with, and I hope I find peace
soon.


In HIM,
Grace

[thedefender]

Gracebyfaith:

There could be a lot of reasons why people try to receive the spirit of God but don't receive the baptism.

* I do know this: today there was a young girl that received the baptism of the Spirit at my church so I know it still happens!*

I digress; Remember the story in Acts 8 about Simon the Sorceror, well, he wanted the Spirit alright, he wanted to speak with tongues, but you know how the story goes, he was rebuked by the Apostles because he offered them money.

Well, in the same spirit, I believe that a lot of people feel that they can receive the baptism with this "gimme" attitude or a "drive through window" attitude that is so prevalent in our churches today. Many people feel that God is a Genie in a bottle and that all they have to do is rub the lamp and out comes the gift of the Holy Ghost. This is not so.

I remember the old timers telling me about "praying through". Have you ever heard of this? You pray and pray until you get an answer from God. It took me 3 weeks to receive the baptism, but I was constantly seeking it.

Another reason people don't receive is because they are not sanctified. The oneness folk seem to skip this impartation of grace over, but you must be sanctified before you can be filled with the Holy Ghost. Your vessel has to be clean. God will not dwell in a dirty vessel.

So once you are clean, then you pray through until you begin to hear from heaven. There is an old hymn song called "Prayerbells of Heaven". Well, you have to get on those prayer bells and begin to ring them until someone answers. I like the scripture that says it is our Father's "good pleasure" to give us this gift.

And the last thing that I would say is that so often people seek the gift instead of the giver. Quit looking to speak in tongues and start looking to work for the Lord. Get out there and witness and testify of what the Lord has done for you and then God will give you more of his love and power.

Blessings,

Derrick the defender

(I wrote this as if you needed to be filled with the Spirit. That may not be true, if not, allow this message to apply to everyone else).

[gracebyfaith]

Thank you for your response.

I think I agree with everything you've said.  I've heard people teach and
people pursue the gift and not the Giver.  If I get anything out of this
discussion that helps me help people, that might be it. 

The sanctified comment, I have a question about.  How do you suppose
people are sanctified before being reborn?  Are you speaking of repentance,
baptism?  I received the Holy Spirit (speaking in tongues) when I was 9
years old, and was baptized a few years later - when I understood things
a little better.  Reason for that was my parents didn't do much teaching
at home - just everywhere else )  Don't take that disrespectly, just
a fact.

Thank you for your time,
Grace

[thedefender]

Well, the "sanctified" comment has to do with Church of God doctrine that basically says that after you are saved you need to be sanctified and then you can be filled with the Holy Ghost. So sanctification comes after the rebirth.

Derrick the defender

(P.S. I didn't mean to "ignore" you comment on the baptism board.)

[gracebyfaith]

Not trying to change the topic.  Please briefly explain how you are
"saved."  Then explain how "you need to be sanctified."

Don't worry about the baptism thread, I'm not sure what's going on
over there.  Every now and then I read threads I'm not actively
participating in and will post a short unimportant comment.  I barely
have enough time to get back on these boards, so I understand how
precious all of our time is.  I won't take anything personally.  We're
all pretty much just giving our two cents. 

[thedefender]

Well, I guess I would explain salvation in biblical terms, "Those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

My personal view of salvation is that it is a commitment that one makes to Christ to serve Him and make Him Lord of one's life. Salvation saves you from hell. It puts you on the "heavenly roll". Salvation could be considered "baptism by the blood" which is the only essential baptism by my understanding of scripture. I believe that the Spirit "draws" an individual to make a commitment to Christ, but the act of salvation is not the work of the Holy Ghost. Only the blood of the Son of God can cleanse from all sin.

Now that we are "positionally" in the right place with God that does not mean that we are  done sinning. The power/desire to sin has to be quenched by the power of the Spirit. This is what I would consider to be "sanctification". John Wesley said that it was instantaneous and gradual/daily at the same time. So the Power of the Holy Ghost purges out the sin in our lives and sanctifies us and makes us holy. This needs to take place before the Holy Ghost can come in.

Derrick the Defender

[gracebyfaith]

That's interesting.  I would agree that the purging is a daily and life long
process.  The Scripture says that EVERYONE should repent and be baptized
and we will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost!  We repent and are baptized,
HE fills us with His Spirit. 

I guess I could see how the sanctification you refer to might be considered
repentance...

The Scripture says we must be born of water and Spirit. 

I'm out of time, gotta go.

Grace

[thedefender]

Grace, I don't think that we talked about congregational and devotional tongues. This is another distinction that people generally are not aware of.

Derrick

[Acumen]

Good to see you, Derrick.  It's nice to see another Pentecostal in the area.