How Do We Get Respect Back?

[Thorolf]

Because that is one of the biggest things that most people in the rest of the world hate us for--our hypocracy about torture.[/i]

I am not aware of a global survey examining whether such alleged hypocrisy on torture is "one of the biggest things" that the world hates us for... but you apparently have the statistics available to you. Could you please provide us with a source so I can learn from this clearly exhaustive global research study?

Thanks in advance.

[redkim]

RK says--

'If we begin to care about what other countries think of us, then we become more concerned with diplomatic relations than with correct action."



Does this mean you think we should keep on torturing people in contravention to the Geneva Conventions we are signatories to?

Because that is one of the biggest things that most people in the rest of the world hate us for--our hypocracy about torture.

Different board, different name, same tricks.

[redkim]

President Clinton, who was well liked at home and abroad...

Thank you, redkim. Obviously, I agree with your post... just wanted to say that I was overseas when Clinton was in office, and in my experience, he wasn't particularly well-liked, either. 

For that matter, I can't think of any President who could be considered "well-liked." Maybe Carter, because he tried to give pretty much everyone whatever they asked for. 

In all seriousness, I think whether or not people like us, or our President, is pretty low on the priority list.

I guess it depended on where you went. I went to Ireland in the Clinton years and they absolutely LOVED him.

[WorldWarrior]

T says--

"In all seriousness, I think whether or not people like us, or our President, is pretty low on the priority list"



This is more of that Republican "cowboy" talk.  Like "Bring it on."

It ignores two major issues in the real world.


One--the US cannot "go it alone" in the world.  We do need allies--which we used to have many many of.

Two--this atempt to emphasize that "we've never really been all that well liked" is incorrect.

Right after 9/11 we had almost the ENTIRE world backing us--and Bush has completely destroyed that.

This is not comparing Bush with any other president--it's talking about what he did with that huge list of friends we had after 9/11 that he squandered so thouroughly with his illegal invasion and war--and accompanying torture.

And now five years and counting--of occupation too.

[WorldWarrior]

T says--

"Could you please provide us with a source so I can learn from this clearly exhaustive global research study"



Read and listen to the world press.

[redkim]

WW:

what you are glaringly forgetting is that while YES, we had much of the world's support just after Sept. 11th, we DIDN'T have it prior to the attack.

[redkim]

T says--

"Could you please provide us with a source so I can learn from this clearly exhaustive global research study"



Read and listen to the world press.

In other words, you have no statistics.

[WorldWarrior]

"Statistics"?


I get my info from reading and listening to the world press. 

If people prefer to hide their heads in the sand and NOT hear what the rest of the world is saying about us--well ignorance is bliss only up to the point where we need allies and friends and we have none.

The rest of the world is watching our elections very closely. They want us to elect someone they can respect and work with.



So far it appears that people in many other parts of the world know a lot more about us and the US than some Awericans know about anyone else who disagrees with their view of the US.

It's a typical Bush-supporter stance.
"We don't care and we don't need to care."

Look where that attitude has got us.




Btw--what's your answer about Bush's torture proclivities and programs?

Does that bother you? Or do you think the rest of the world is wrong about that too?

[redkim]

"Statistics"?


I get my info from reading and listening to the world press. 

If people prefer to hide their heads in the sand and NOT hear what the rest of the world is saying about us--well ignorance is bliss only up to the point where we need allies and friends and we have none.

The rest of the world is watching our elections very closely. They want us to elect someone they can respect and work with.



So far it appears that people in many other parts of the world know a lot more about us and the US than some Awericans know about anyone else who disagrees with their view of the US.

It's a typical Bush-supporter stance.
"We don't care and we don't need to care."

Look where that attitude has got us.




Btw--what's your answer about Bush's torture proclivities and programs?

Does that bother you? Or do you think the rest of the world is wrong about that too?

The only thing you are doing here is reading what you want to read, regardless of what is actually in a post.

What makes you assume that I am a 'Bush Supporter?'

I could very well say of you that YOU have your head in the sand when you blame other countries distrust of us SOLELY on the Bush Administration.

[Thorolf]

T says--

"Could you please provide us with a source so I can learn from this clearly exhaustive global research study"



Read and listen to the world press.

LOL.

In other words, you have no clue what you're talking about and you are making assumptions based on some subjective interpretation of recent press clippings you've seen, convenient since the torture issue was in the news just last week...

But a week's worth of subjective and selective interpretation of the "world press" as they reported  last week's congressional/Presidential/congressional activity is certainly conclusive proof.

Noted.

[WorldWarrior]

T says--

"In other words, you have no clue what you're talking about and you are making assumptions based on some subjective interpretation of recent press clippings you've seen, convenient since the torture issue was in the news just last week..."



My posts are based on months and years of paying attention to what is being said in the world press.

if you want to ignore the fact that most of the world now hates Bush--and by extension the US--because of the Iraq invasion and occupation--which much of the world thinks is illegal--and based on Bush's continued use of torture in contravention to the Genweva Conventions--go right ahead.

But to think that the US did not have many alleis and does oto now need allies is th same kind of involuted navel watching that Bush has been doing for the past seven years.

And look where that has got us.



btw--Bush's own former White House spokesman--Scott McClellan--has just come out with a book in which he says that the White House lied about the reasons for going into Iraq.

So even Bush's own people know just how badly Bush's policies have affected the US.


btw--do you think Bush's continuing torture is a good idea?

Most people in the world and many people in the US think it's hypocritical and breaks our promises as signatories of the Geneva Convention.

[redkim]

I'd like to know who on this thread has said that the US does not need allies.

[Thorolf]

I'd like to know who on this thread has said that the US does not need allies.

Me too. There are lots of things in the post right above yours that I don't recall ever posting, seeing, or thinking...

[redkim]

I'd like to know who on this thread has said that the US does not need allies.

Me too. There are lots of things in the post right above yours that I don't recall ever posting, seeing, or thinking...

Yes, and I think the question about whether or not we support torture rather specious.

[redkim]

The pattern seems to be as follows:

If you don't agree that the reason the US is hated in the world is because of President Bush then you have your head in the sand and are not aware of what is going on in the world

If you bring up the well-founded point that the US was not liked under several presidents (at the very least), regardless of their political persuasion, then you are just trying to deflect the fact that President Bush and his policies are not well-liked. I'm not sure how this reasoning works personally. I mean I don't understand how bringing up the fact that other Presidents had difficulty with other countries prior to President Bush is somehow keeping our collective heads in the sand. Bringing up the status of the US under other Administrations does not negate how we see others view the US under President Bush.

If you bring up the fact that the US has not been liked in various parts of the world for quite a while now, you somehow support Bush's policy on torture, despite the fact that the like/dislike of torture has not actually been discussed.

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

I really think that the current perception of the US goes back to the cold war.  Both the US and the USSR would utilize smaller countries as pawns for their battles. 

Without the Soviets to play off as the bad guys, we become the biggest guy on the playground.  Everything we do, even if it is offer aid, is seen as meddling in the affairs of other countries, and if we don't offer aid, we are criticized for that. 

Even though I'm not a big fan of his, I don't see how Bush is to blame for that, nor do I see how anyone else is going to fix it.

all

[Acumen]

I have to agree with Thorolf here: not liking the US is certainly not new to America under the Bush Administration, although his Presidency certainly has not helped in that department. If we begin to care about what other countries think of us, then we become more concerned with diplomatic relations than with correct action. When that happens, then NO ONE will like us. Remember, President Bush was NOT in office when the second attack on the World Trade Center was in the planning stages, nor was he in office when the USS Cole happened in 2000. However, President Clinton, who was well liked at home and abroad was in office both with the USS Cole AND the first attack on the WTC. So, you see, it is not WHO is in office that gains or loses respect for America from abroad, but it is something else.

You're 100% right.  Superpowers aren't liked by non-superpowers.  Such is life. 

[redkim]

I have to agree with Thorolf here: not liking the US is certainly not new to America under the Bush Administration, although his Presidency certainly has not helped in that department. If we begin to care about what other countries think of us, then we become more concerned with diplomatic relations than with correct action. When that happens, then NO ONE will like us. Remember, President Bush was NOT in office when the second attack on the World Trade Center was in the planning stages, nor was he in office when the USS Cole happened in 2000. However, President Clinton, who was well liked at home and abroad was in office both with the USS Cole AND the first attack on the WTC. So, you see, it is not WHO is in office that gains or loses respect for America from abroad, but it is something else.

You're 100% right.  Superpowers aren't liked by non-superpowers.  Such is life. 

and then we could get into an argument about the value of superpowers. It seems to be the way of mankind to always have a superpower, whether it be Rome or the US.

[Faithfulee]

We can get respect back by

1.   stop calling our troops ‘occupiers”

2.   achieve victory in Iraq by leaving a Function democracy

3.   develop an energy policy that drills for US oil,  eliminate ethanol,  and therby reduce food prices and  avoid starvation in poorer countries.

4.   revive the American economy by reducing taxes and  promoting private enterprise.  A  vibrant US economy will  benefit  every country on earth, both the suppliers of our products and our customers.  Tourism is a  universally respected industry but  will suffer as our economy declines. 

The world won't respect us until we respect ourselves.

God Bless America.

PS: can anyone produce a better list of things we can do instead of just bashing America.?

[redkim]

One of the great things we can do is support mom and pop businesses and bring back the small farmer. Support your local farmer! Join a CSA or a farmer's market!

Besides supporting your neighbor, locally grown produce tastes better and is better for the local economy. Trucks don't have to travel as far to bring in goods, therefore, you are helping to save on gas.

Also, if you don't need an SUV, don't drive one: they are an unnecessary pain in the ass and are gas-guzzlers.