Unity

[Superdog]

Why are there so many protestant denominations, and doesn't this seriously undermind the body of Christ?

[Altarboy]

Pride and arrogance

[dr spock]

The logical response is that different denominations doesn't entail disunity.  Unity is a description of purposeful orientation, whereas uniformity is a description of the sameness of beliefs and rituals. 

[Acumen]

Right,

I've personally hung out with Christians who had much different beliefs than I do, and the unity between us was nothing short of excellent.  I believe that unity is really a disposition manifested by acts of spiritual orientation, consideration, and love toward your neighbor.

[Acumen]

Right,

I've personally hung out with Christians who had much different beliefs than I do, and the unity between us was nothing short of excellent.  I believe that unity is really a disposition manifested by acts of spiritual orientation, consideration, and love toward your neighbor.

I have had the same "unity" with Jews and other non Christians, good feelings and a great disposition is not indicative of truth.

Bad analogy.  I'm talking about Christian unity.  We proclaim and submit to the same God and Savior.  Now grant it, I cannot even pretend to speak for so many groups of Christians.  For the most part, they (those that take it seriously) accept Jesus as the messiah and the acceptance of him in their daily lives.

I may not accept the infallible authority of the papacy, which at one time was declared by the Catholic Church as one way ticket to hell, but I do accept that Jesus died and resurrected so that he may live in us, letting our light shine to a lost and depraved world.

[gracebyfaith]

I agree with Dr. Spock.  Unity is not uniformity.  The Bible speaks
of "unity of spirit."  I think that is the purposeful orientation explained.

In the body of Christ, there is one Head - even Christ, but many
members with different roles/functions.  But all these worketh that
one and the selfsame Spirit.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be
Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made
to drink into one Spirit."

This is the body of Christ.  I don't consider different Christian denominations
different bodies.  Although, I do wish more believers in Christ would purpose
not to choose the traditions of their particular denomination over loving their
brothers/sisters in the Lord.  That would help with the "pride" issue.

[Acumen]

Amen

[Acumen]

El,

1 Tim 3:15

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Human nature tells us, in a very obvious fashion, that there needs to be structure and accountability for any real societal progress and this rings especially true in the world of Christianity.  

Agreed.

This does not mean "uniformity" this means accountability

Agreed.

...and to whom, is the question?  According to the the passage above and many others, Jesus established this accountabilty on earth with human "heads."

I'm not sure where we disagree, here?  But yet, I know we disagree somewhere.   

I agree, but this does not mean that each so called "denomination" needs to be recognized as such and or seperate form the one true Church.

Recognized by who?

The irony about the "denomination" of "Roman Catholicism" is that it had never been nothing but the "Catholic (universal) Church" until those who came out of her in schism chose to label Her "Roman" after the Holy See.  And those who look at schism without reproach 500 years after the fact are, as they say, "doomed to repeat history."

I really don't see much a difference between the Protestant churches and the Roman Catholic Church.  The Roman Catholic Church is filled with individual members that believe different things about "official" Catholic doctrines and don't hold pure faith-based allegiences to the pope.  You have denominations within your church, you just refuse to see it.

-Acumen

[thedefender]

Rebellious Daughters.

Derrick the defender

(Southerners Like Rebels!)

[gracebyfaith]

Wait a second!  Derrick - why are you calling them rebellious "daughters."
Are you Catholic?

I'm teasing, I think... 

Seriously, why do you call them rebellious? Wouldn't you consider rebellion
the same as division/denominations? 

[thedefender]

Gracebyfaith:

I am not catholic, hence the irony!

Derrick the defender

[Some Darn Xian]

RCC "Denominations"

The American Catholic Church
The Polish Catholic Church

I know of these two because I have talked to people in their membership.

An interesting facet about these two groups--married clergy, and resistance to paying royalties to the RCC for the sake of it being the RCC.

As for unity, seriously take a look at the concept of faith. It is often times governed by a person's experiences in life. These experiences are not something that can be debated and a right or wrong reason determined for them.

Take Xrist talking to the tax collector. Here is a person, that according to the ESTABLISHED RELIGIOUS POWER, was a scorned person who was to be considered an outcast. What did Jesus do? He befriended him. He forgave him. He provided him with solace and comfort when the ESTABLISHED RELIGIOUS POWER would not. He was Jewish, he was a member of the chosen nation, and he professed faith. Yet, he was considered an outcast.

I find those that I would consider to be true believers in all denominations. I also find apostatic people in these same groups. I can profess faith that is generally in accord with many, but differs on a few points. The points of difference are not so severe as to be that of Xian and anti-Xian. Do I consider them to be brothers and sisters in Xian? You bet I do.

The litmus test of belonging to a particular group as a determinate of whether they are "safe" is a construct of weak minded people. There is no other way to put it. If you know what you believe, are convicted of that faith, a conversation or fellowship with those who may be a little different in their walks of faith should not be a problem at all. It should be a means to strengthen one's faith, grow to a deeper understanding of what they believe, and why they believe what they do.

The old phrase of "preaching to the choir" comes to mind. If that's all the one does, then what kind of understanding is really achieved? Agreement is not understanding, nor is it edifying in all cases.

The only way a surveyor can make sure their line is straight is to look at it from a different point of view.

[Amicus]

Maybe we first need to agree on the definition of "denomination"?  When I think of denomination I don't envision a church and all it's people, I look to it's core beliefs and doctrine.

So speaking in the context of doctrine, I think the point is that under the heading of "protestants" there seems to me to be no unity doctrinally speaking.

I have a friend that is "non-demominational" with very strong "baptist" beliefs.  He believes that you can lose salvation by your own accord, yet his father, same church and background believes in the theory of once saved always saved.  On the topic of salvation, which is hardly a light topic, it divides and disrupts unity in that these body of believers split and some go with this church they feel more comfortable with while others follow someone (another view) else.

You can make a good argument that the Catholic church has denominations...Lutherans would be one of them if I follow the same line of thinking.  Just because there's a split, in my mind at least, I don't see that as a separate Catholic demonition.

I believe that there is truth in every Christian deomination...at the end of the day we, as a body of believers, are trying to accomplish the same thing..if we keep our focus on Christ and his will for us, then unity will prevail.

Peace be with you.

[gracebyfaith]

Amicus,
This is just a thought.  Do you think maybe the Catholic church can
claim unity, because they don't allow differences.  Those people
who think differently eventually have to leave the "Catholic" faith?

Grace

[Bro John]

Unity is only achievable by getting rid of the labels.  I'm Catholic your Roman Catholic, I'm Baptist, your Anglican 

As Christians ... our unity is in Jesus the Christ and even then we don't see eye to eye.  He said, she said, I'm right, your wrong ...  and so on, and so on!

Blessings
Bro. John

P.S. .... I'm new here, please forgive me if I step on anyones toes.

[Acumen]

P.S. .... I'm new here, please forgive me if I step on anyones toes.

Don't worry, nobody will mess with you.  I'll make sure of it.   

[julrich]

unity is reconciled diversity.

jules

[Acumen]

Jules,

I see nothing in the inherent definition of "unity" that requires the notion of reconciliation or diversity, although I believe that unity can certainly encompass both.

[julrich]

what indivisible unity do we know of?

jules